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Forum Home > Plugins Programming > Too much = failure to launch

innsomatic
Member
Posts: 85

We have a problem that keeps coming up over and over again.   This server is under heavy maintenence at almost all times, which i understand things need to be worked on,  but the constant state of not being accepting of the add-ons we have or the constant state of looking to expand means that were going to expand the server into down time or inaccessability again.

Its been a few days now since i mentioned my ability to not be able to do anything, i can't even talk on the server, and that was never fixed,  but i still don't know what the cause of that was,  All i do know is that it started from the /Rules add-on,  Which at time time, we don't exactly need, (especially if it causes issues like players haveing 0 permissions)  We had a nice little comfy set-up where we could come together and play,  it worked just fine,  i know i was happy with the results and thus the server was function.  

This morning i tried to log in, and i'm getting the outdated client msg, when i have the highest official release out right now,  so what exactly are we doing,  do we want to attact people because if thats the case, we need to make the server more steady which means ensuring 100% compatability on the add-ons or not using them.   

I just feel like if we can't be happy iwth what we have, were not going to get to a stable platform where people can play on the server for extended periods of time.  I can't remember the last time it went a whole week without any issues logging, or playing, or anything like that...  This last little bit after the sunjava update helped alot though.

Think about it a bit.  Playability vs. modification

--


February 2, 2012 at 8:22 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hankscorpiouk
Site Owner
Posts: 2773

innsomatic at February 2, 2012 at 8:22 AM

We have a problem that keeps coming up over and over again.   This server is under heavy maintenence at almost all times, which i understand things need to be worked on,  but the constant state of not being accepting of the add-ons we have or the constant state of looking to expand means that were going to expand the server into down time or inaccessability again.

Its been a few days now since i mentioned my ability to not be able to do anything, i can't even talk on the server, and that was never fixed,  but i still don't know what the cause of that was,  All i do know is that it started from the /Rules add-on,  Which at time time, we don't exactly need, (especially if it causes issues like players haveing 0 permissions)  We had a nice little comfy set-up where we could come together and play,  it worked just fine,  i know i was happy with the results and thus the server was function.  

This morning i tried to log in, and i'm getting the outdated client msg, when i have the highest official release out right now,  so what exactly are we doing,  do we want to attact people because if thats the case, we need to make the server more steady which means ensuring 100% compatability on the add-ons or not using them.   

I just feel like if we can't be happy iwth what we have, were not going to get to a stable platform where people can play on the server for extended periods of time.  I can't remember the last time it went a whole week without any issues logging, or playing, or anything like that...  This last little bit after the sunjava update helped alot though.

Think about it a bit.  Playability vs. modification

I take it you're not a cat (or jungle) person?

--




Owner, CEO, Interim CTO, Chief Strategist, Main Stress Monkey of Hank's Kewl Minecraft Server (KMCS)...

  • KMCS Minecraft-Bukkit server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net
  • KMCS Minecraft-Tekikt server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:25000
  • KMCS VST (Snapshot) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:26000
  • KMCS TFC (Terrafirmacraft) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:27000
  • KMCS Attack of the B-Team Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:28000

---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===

[Website: kewlmcserver.net]   -  Site Map / Getting around: subdoms.kewlmcserver.net

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February 2, 2012 at 9:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hankscorpiouk
Site Owner
Posts: 2773

innsomatic at February 2, 2012 at 8:22 AM

We have a problem that keeps coming up over and over again.   This server is under heavy maintenence at almost all times, which i understand things need to be worked on,  but the constant state of not being accepting of the add-ons we have or the constant state of looking to expand means that were going to expand the server into down time or inaccessability again.

Its been a few days now since i mentioned my ability to not be able to do anything, i can't even talk on the server, and that was never fixed,  but i still don't know what the cause of that was,  All i do know is that it started from the /Rules add-on,  Which at time time, we don't exactly need, (especially if it causes issues like players haveing 0 permissions)  We had a nice little comfy set-up where we could come together and play,  it worked just fine,  i know i was happy with the results and thus the server was function.  

This morning i tried to log in, and i'm getting the outdated client msg, when i have the highest official release out right now,  so what exactly are we doing,  do we want to attact people because if thats the case, we need to make the server more steady which means ensuring 100% compatability on the add-ons or not using them.   

I just feel like if we can't be happy iwth what we have, were not going to get to a stable platform where people can play on the server for extended periods of time.  I can't remember the last time it went a whole week without any issues logging, or playing, or anything like that...  This last little bit after the sunjava update helped alot though.

Think about it a bit.  Playability vs. modification

More seriously though...


1. WHEN did you mention you couldn't speak on server?  And to who/where?  Do you still have that problem?  I saw you mention not being able to do /help which I asked Vashal about immediately upon reading and he offered solution within minutes.  I even replied on thread saying the "do you need halp" thing was fixed.


2. Granted, you can add too much.  Maybe adding Spout was a step too far, but you have to admit it's potentially pretty awesome.  Before adding Spout though the server was fairly reliable for a few weeks since putting Bukkit back on.  I was happy to get the server to about 40 - 60 plugins then be extremely discriminating about what I added.  This is where we got to around the time I put Spout on.


3. The rules / acceptrules stuff was important but sadly buggy but it didn't seem to stop other people from talking.  The few people (me, Teals and Vashal, IDK if anymore) who had issues talking had them because of Vanish and we all figured out for ourselves how to fix that.


4. WHY are you getting the "outdated client" message?  Everyone here knows the answer and the fact you don't tells me you don't bother reading the forums, especially the most recent threads.  Not great for a supposed Admin.  I mean, not replying to my PMs is one thing, but ignoring important threads then putting a semi-trolling wall of text here as a result....if you didn't want to be an admin, you should have told me.  I see you've been very happy to use the admin commands though....

--




Owner, CEO, Interim CTO, Chief Strategist, Main Stress Monkey of Hank's Kewl Minecraft Server (KMCS)...

  • KMCS Minecraft-Bukkit server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net
  • KMCS Minecraft-Tekikt server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:25000
  • KMCS VST (Snapshot) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:26000
  • KMCS TFC (Terrafirmacraft) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:27000
  • KMCS Attack of the B-Team Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:28000

---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===

[Website: kewlmcserver.net]   -  Site Map / Getting around: subdoms.kewlmcserver.net

[Social Media: socialmedia.kewlmcserver.net]

Enjoying yourself here?  mcreviews.kewlmcserver.net


Donate / Get something kewl

Got an idea, a suggestion, a problem?  Click to let us know :)


Regards, Hank :)

February 2, 2012 at 10:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Vashal

Posts: 200

I'm going to add on to a few things.


First off, It is true that we borked the server a few times with plugins, perhaps we should test more before we put them on, you could always of suggested that instead of saying we're ruining the server again.


Second, if you have a bug problem at all, pm hank or me and i'll get right to fixing it. Part of the reason we are doing the snapshot as of right now is 1, everyone likes jungles, 2, it gives us time to plan things out, and three it'll make it 100% reliable as there is no plugins at all.


I imagine you know this already, but you are an Admin. You could of maybe, looked up the error, found a solution on you're own, and then told hank. Then that error could be fixed for the whole server. Then we could focus on other bugs, squash all of it and our reliability goes through the roof.


Third, every forum so far asking for suggestions of what to add or not add, both economy related or plugin/mod has been helpful. If you felt we shouldn't add this or that, you need to speak up and say it, not make a wall of a text stating nothing except the fact you haven't bothered to read any forums.


Finally, Let me try to make you see my point of view. If you were a regular or VIP, i would apologize, then try my best to help with you're problem and be 100% open to ideas and suggestions. If you were a JuniorMod, i wouldn't be too strict and i would sympathize, cause while there is stuff you can do to help, that isn't as much your job. SeniorMod I feel has been around long enough as staff to actually help, not make a long post about what we did wrong. JuniorAdmin (i.e. You.) Lose a lot of sympathy from me the second this sort of thing happens. It's basically you're job description to ease the load off hank and build and improve the server. The fact of the matter is, I haven't seen or heard of you doing anything at all. Multiple times hank has wanted me to talk to either you, or Geega about doing what you should be doing as Admin. I would also like to add, new people read the forums, regulars read the forums, They have been reading the insightful posts we are trying our best to have them read, and now all new people will look at this, and probably think the server is finished before even giving it a second chance. 


TL;DR You're an Admin, learn what it means, and do you're job before saying we aren't fixing things. 

February 2, 2012 at 10:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hankscorpiouk
Site Owner
Posts: 2773

> Second, if you have a bug problem at all, pm hank or me and i'll get right to fixing it. Part of the reason we are doing the snapshot as of right now is 1, everyone likes jungles, 2, it gives us time to plan things out, and three it'll make it 100% reliable as there is no plugins at all.



Contact Us / EMERGENCY


Is hard enough keeping the forums clean as it is without this kind of insanity.  Hence why I put links like that up there in the first place.

--




Owner, CEO, Interim CTO, Chief Strategist, Main Stress Monkey of Hank's Kewl Minecraft Server (KMCS)...

  • KMCS Minecraft-Bukkit server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net
  • KMCS Minecraft-Tekikt server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:25000
  • KMCS VST (Snapshot) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:26000
  • KMCS TFC (Terrafirmacraft) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:27000
  • KMCS Attack of the B-Team Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:28000

---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===

[Website: kewlmcserver.net]   -  Site Map / Getting around: subdoms.kewlmcserver.net

[Social Media: socialmedia.kewlmcserver.net]

Enjoying yourself here?  mcreviews.kewlmcserver.net


Donate / Get something kewl

Got an idea, a suggestion, a problem?  Click to let us know :)


Regards, Hank :)

February 2, 2012 at 10:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

innsomatic
Member
Posts: 85

okay this seems to go a little far, i wanted to open as a discussion with a few examples and its turned the complete other way, where at this point its become more like an argument,  i'm not trying to be attacked because i want to discuss the idea that maybe we should have a seperate test server or something of the sort where we can test compatability first,  which maintains stability on the main server.  thats what i'm heading for but i'm trying to keep it more of a discussion...  at this point i feel that what i said might be seen more as an attack, because i sure as hell feel like i've gotta be on the defensive now.  i think all of us can agree that, that isn't what we want to do to anyone on the server.


 So lets just discuss the idea of keeping the server as stable as possible and keying to keep the server and a version that we feel would appeal to a majority of the players (considering were trying to get an influx of players at this point)  its not so much about reading forums because yes I was well aware we were on 1.2 when i posted what i did,  What i was saying is that if we want to bring in more players, we should consider sticking to the latest official patches, because that would be what a majority of people have.  Being a 1.2 server in this case, Yes, Neat the jungle and cat thing is cool, don't get me wrong,  but keeping in mind that we want players, we have to stoop to the majority's level ya' know?

--


February 2, 2012 at 2:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Vashal

Posts: 200

First off, i've read your OP a few times, and no where did you mention testing. You said we were adding too much and it was constantly broken, I said maybe we should test more.


Second, Sadly, imo the server just wasn't presentable and whether you want to say it or not, you know it. We were doing live fixes of everything, adding things on the fly and making constant changes. It would of been horrible to try to advertise into that mess. So getting new players doesn't help atm. The players who are currently on the server seem to be fine and content with the snapshot until bukkit 1.2. By then not only will we be more prepared but we'll do things a bit differently. The only reason you felt attacked is because this kind of discussion is better done privately, and aside from that you should be finding solutions for bugs just as much as me, hank, geega or the teals, not just reporting them. Which i never got a bug report anyway.

--


February 2, 2012 at 4:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

innsomatic
Member
Posts: 85

i'd have more fun yelling at my butthole then listening to your crap... Discussion man,  so just cut it already.

--


February 3, 2012 at 12:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hankscorpiouk
Site Owner
Posts: 2773

innsomatic at February 3, 2012 at 12:49 AM

i'd have more fun yelling at my butthole then listening to your crap... Discussion man,  so just cut it already.

Hey, it's not meant to be "fun".  You're demoted and I'm rescinding your website access.  Next step for you is to apologise to Vashal, then me and the Teals (for expecting us (and Vashal) to do all the work all these months.  Keep it up and a ban will follow.  I'm out of patience.


Also keep note everyone, this is what happens when you refuse to do the right thing over and over and over again.  I foolishly made him an admin some months ago and he has offered no input other than vague, irratiotional complaints.


You know, for a former military man you seem to have a very tenuous grip on "chain of command".  Maybe you think you're automatically higher up the chain of command IRL, because we're civilians, right?


"you're idiots who don't know how to run a website and server.....I offer no sensible input"......and you expect us not to be pissed?


EDIT: screw it, temporary ban/suspension is in place,  probably disgruntled enough to start griefing our stuff.


EDIT 2: doing this is hard enough without it turning into Internet dramas.  If you get promoted, as Vashal has ALREADY said, do it understanding there's a responsibility involved.  There was always a responsibility involved, this didn't just start.  The only ranks where it isn't involved are VIP ranks.  You can help in a really serious way once, for example, and you get to keep HelperVIP for LIFE.  Same goes with BuilderVIP, ArtistVIP and AwesomeVIP.  And the Silver, Gold, Diamond ones depend on how long you've upgraded for.  With mod and admin, you're expected to do something in return for that extra. Status and power.  You get enough extra commands, so what's the problem?  Wait, I've already said this before.....on the Recruiting page.

--




Owner, CEO, Interim CTO, Chief Strategist, Main Stress Monkey of Hank's Kewl Minecraft Server (KMCS)...

  • KMCS Minecraft-Bukkit server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net
  • KMCS Minecraft-Tekikt server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:25000
  • KMCS VST (Snapshot) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:26000
  • KMCS TFC (Terrafirmacraft) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:27000
  • KMCS Attack of the B-Team Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:28000

---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===

[Website: kewlmcserver.net]   -  Site Map / Getting around: subdoms.kewlmcserver.net

[Social Media: socialmedia.kewlmcserver.net]

Enjoying yourself here?  mcreviews.kewlmcserver.net


Donate / Get something kewl

Got an idea, a suggestion, a problem?  Click to let us know :)


Regards, Hank :)

February 3, 2012 at 1:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

innsomatic
Member
Posts: 85

i haven't greifed anything, and i sent you a msg about it.  I knew awhile back i didn't have all the time in the world to devote, thats why i donated in that stead because i knew i couldn't devote the time needed.  I'm not calling everyone idiots, i'm not saying you guys don't know how to run a website.  I have a little more respect for YOU and teals atleast to be that insulting,  at the moment i think its understandable that me and vash are butting heads.    

When i post issues on the forums it isn't because i'm looking for someone else to fix it, i'm not doing it as a way to say hey, someone help me,  in this case i was doing it to point out some of the flaws i noticed from the plug-ins because i felt stability would be better suited,   As far as i knew we were trying to promote the site based off a message i had received.  

The plug-in issue is no ones fault, and what i said isn't designed to be pointing fingers and blaming anyone.  So for anyone offended, that's not the intent there.  Its just to discuss...tis a forum thats what people do. 

As for me and vash, i can be civil if you can be civil, and the last post didn't feel so "civil"  from either of us.

--


February 3, 2012 at 1:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hankscorpiouk
Site Owner
Posts: 2773

innsomatic at February 3, 2012 at 1:20 AM

i haven't greifed anything, and i sent you a msg about it.  I knew awhile back i didn't have all the time in the world to devote, thats why i donated in that stead because i knew i couldn't devote the time needed.  I'm not calling everyone idiots, i'm not saying you guys don't know how to run a website.  I have a little more respect for YOU and teals atleast to be that insulting,  at the moment i think its understandable that me and vash are butting heads.    

When i post issues on the forums it isn't because i'm looking for someone else to fix it, i'm not doing it as a way to say hey, someone help me,  in this case i was doing it to point out some of the flaws i noticed from the plug-ins because i felt stability would be better suited,   As far as i knew we were trying to promote the site based off a message i had received.  

The plug-in issue is no ones fault, and what i said isn't designed to be pointing fingers and blaming anyone.  So for anyone offended, that's not the intent there.  Its just to discuss...tis a forum thats what people do. 

As for me and vash, i can be civil if you can be civil, and the last post didn't feel so "civil"  from either of us.

The thing you don't seem to be appreciating is that Vashal is a SeniorAdmin.


Not a mod.  Not a SeniorMod.  But a Senior.....Admin.


Maybe because you haven't been around that much for a while you don't appreciate he's a SeniorAdmin.  I don't know.  But he is.

 

 

 


He's EARNED that.  Through and through.


As I've ALREADY said on this site, in the FAQ I believe, if you have a problem with someone who has a rank above you, the worst thing you could do is have it out with them in a very public way.  The German guys did that with EXX a while back, and they lost.....either though technically EXX was in the wrong (firing TNT at their town, herp) and I was too for not keeping a much shorter leash.  That's why I say "send me a PM explaining why you think they're abusing their power or being dumb etc etc".  I don't think Vashal is abusing his power or being dumb here, but just saying, that getting into a public fight with a SeniorAdmin is not intelligent.  If anything, Vashal is being more polite than I would have been if I'd been the only one replying on this thread.  I saw red when I read the OP.  Are you going to pick a fight with me?  Think about it this way.  I am the President.  Vashal and the Teals are the Joint Chiefs.  You don't "butt heads" with these people.  You politely make constructive suggestions and observations, you didn't do that.  Your OP was confrontational. 


Ok, I appreciate some people are too busy to be Admins, or even Mods, that is why I NEVER promote people without asking first.  At the time when I asked you seemed very happy to take that role. You could have asked exactly what it entailed or guessed there'd be work involved.  Sure you donated, and for that I'm grateful, but that doesn't give you a lifetime pass to do or say whatever you want, however you want, whenever you want.  You donated $25, not $25,000.  If you look at the Upgrades page you'll see that doesn't buy you as much as Admin-type power for very long.  Sure, I could have been more forthcoming about what exactly I needed from Admins, as I am doing now.  But some people, fell over themselves to volunteer help, Vashal was one of them.


The reason he is a SeniorAdmin is as follows (take note everyone who's interested in promotion)......


On his first day he started at the server he didn't just start playing or ask 1 or 2 questions.  He literally bombarded me with inteliigent questions.  By about question 10 I was thinking, this was likely admin material.  By about question 25 I was thinking "pls STFU and let me build already!" (haha but in a good way Vashal, don't worry).  It was like he'd read every page on the site before even logging into the server.  THAT is how you become a shoe-in for promotions, or even fast-track promotions.  Providing you follow through, as he did.  I'm not saying every new person should do that, just that is why he is SA and why butting heads with him like this is not acceptable.  The hatchet needs to be buried between you now.




--




Owner, CEO, Interim CTO, Chief Strategist, Main Stress Monkey of Hank's Kewl Minecraft Server (KMCS)...

  • KMCS Minecraft-Bukkit server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net
  • KMCS Minecraft-Tekikt server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:25000
  • KMCS VST (Snapshot) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:26000
  • KMCS TFC (Terrafirmacraft) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:27000
  • KMCS Attack of the B-Team Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:28000

---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===

[Website: kewlmcserver.net]   -  Site Map / Getting around: subdoms.kewlmcserver.net

[Social Media: socialmedia.kewlmcserver.net]

Enjoying yourself here?  mcreviews.kewlmcserver.net


Donate / Get something kewl

Got an idea, a suggestion, a problem?  Click to let us know :)


Regards, Hank :)

February 3, 2012 at 1:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hankscorpiouk
Site Owner
Posts: 2773

Also let me add....another good reason to keep these dramas private.....I undo the temporary ban/suspension, then there's a load of griefing done, especially against Vashal and/or Me.  Who do you think would be prime suspect?  You could be completely innocent, but because everyone knows there's been bad blood they'll think they can frame you.


I'll say it again.  DO NOT FIGHT WITH RANKS ABOVE YOU.  IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THEM, TELL ME BY PM AND I WILL DEAL WITH IT FAIRLY AND QUICKLY.

--




Owner, CEO, Interim CTO, Chief Strategist, Main Stress Monkey of Hank's Kewl Minecraft Server (KMCS)...

  • KMCS Minecraft-Bukkit server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net
  • KMCS Minecraft-Tekikt server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:25000
  • KMCS VST (Snapshot) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:26000
  • KMCS TFC (Terrafirmacraft) Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:27000
  • KMCS Attack of the B-Team Minecraft server IP: mc.kewlmcserver.net:28000

---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===

[Website: kewlmcserver.net]   -  Site Map / Getting around: subdoms.kewlmcserver.net

[Social Media: socialmedia.kewlmcserver.net]

Enjoying yourself here?  mcreviews.kewlmcserver.net


Donate / Get something kewl

Got an idea, a suggestion, a problem?  Click to let us know :)


Regards, Hank :)

February 3, 2012 at 2:07 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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